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| luis55
| Joined: 18 Mar 2006 | Posts: 4 | : | Location: Oporto - Portugal | Items |
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Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:22 am Post subject: can you help me solve this one please? |
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4-5-1.......69-7--69 ............2----8---3
2-9-8........3--5--4...............7----6---1
6-3-7....... 1--28-28.............45--45---9
- - - - - - -
7-2-6...........489 3489 -1....458-345-58
35-1-4.........28 238 258....9----7----6
359-8-359....7- 469 569...1----345-2
- - - - - - -
1-4-25........268 268 3......,58-9-7
39-7-239....5 2489 289....6-1-48
8-6-59........49 1 7........3-2-45 |
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| angusj Site Admin
| Joined: 18 Jun 2005 | Posts: 406 | : | | Items |
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Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:50 am Post subject: |
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Hi luis55.
Firstly, welcome to the Sudoku Programmers forum.
Also, please try and post puzzles in a legible form.
I think I've deciphered you puzzle above but what I get is a puzzle with no solution (so I suspect you've made a mistake in getting this far):
Code: | *-----------------------------------------------------------*
| 4 5 1 | 69 7 69 | 2 8 3 |
| 2 9 8 | 3 5 4 | 7 6 1 |
| 6 3 7 | 1 28 28 | 45 45 9 |
|-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
| 7 2 6 | 489 3489 1 | 458 345 58 |
| 35 1 4 | 28 238 258 | 9 7 6 |
| 359 8 359 | 7 469 569 | 1 345 2 |
|-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
| 1 4 25 | 268 268 3 | 58 9 7 |
| 39 7 239 | 5 2489 289 | 6 1 48 |
| 8 6 59 | 49 1 7 | 3 2 45 |
*-----------------------------------------------------------* |
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| rkral
| Joined: 21 Oct 2005 | Posts: 233 | : | | Items |
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Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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luis55, you have invalidly eliminated digit 3 as a candidate from row 6 col 5. Other than that, your grid looks alright. For your next moves, consider where a 9 can be placed in row 6 ... and where an 8 can be placed in row 4. Does any box have a "lock" on these digits? |
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| luis55
| Joined: 18 Mar 2006 | Posts: 4 | : | Location: Oporto - Portugal | Items |
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Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:49 am Post subject: |
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Thanks angusj and sorry for my mistake, there’s a 3 missing in r6c5. I’ve been trying my best to post the puzzle in a legible form but without success; wonder if you could help me on that also. (I use Word in a mac computer).
I also missed the basic moves that rkral mentions plus I can eliminate 5 in r6c3 due to 5 in r7c3 and r9c3. But I’m still stuck... |
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| Ruud Site Admin
| Joined: 17 Sep 2005 | Posts: 708 | : | Location: Netherlands | Items |
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Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:08 am Post subject: |
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Hi Luis,
after the eliminations, your candidate grid looks like this:
Code: | .---------------.---------------.---------------.
| 4 5 1 | 69 7 69 | 2 8 3 |
| 2 9 8 | 3 5 4 | 7 6 1 |
| 6 3 7 | 1 28 28 | 45 45 9 |
:---------------+---------------+---------------:
| 7 2 6 | 49 349 1 | 458 345 58 |
| 35 1 4 | 28 238 258 | 9 7 6 |
| 359 8 39 | 7 346 56 | 1 345 2 |
:---------------+---------------+---------------:
| 1 4 25 | 268 268 3 | 58 9 7 |
| 39 7 239 | 5 2489 289 | 6 1 48 |
| 8 6 59 | 49 1 7 | 3 2 45 |
'---------------'---------------'---------------' |
Now concentrate deeply on column 4. How many cells can be used for the digits 4 and 9?
-
When you post a candidate grid, you could use a text editor with a fixed size font like courier to prepare the data. Many solvers (Sudoku Susser is available for the Mac) can produce candidate grids too.
use the [code] and [/code] tags to format the grid nicely here on the forum.
Ruud. |
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| angusj Site Admin
| Joined: 18 Jun 2005 | Posts: 406 | : | | Items |
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Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:20 am Post subject: |
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luis55 wrote: | I’ve been trying my best to post the puzzle in a legible form but without success; wonder if you could help me on that also. |
Use your favorite text editor and choose a non-proportional (fixed-width) font. Layout candidates as in the example below (spacing them so all cells line up). It also helps to use 'bar' characters (|) and minus characters (-) to indicate where box boundaries are but they aren't essential.
When pasting your candidate grid into the forum, it's important to enclose it in a [code] [/code] block to ensure it's also displayed using a non-proportional font. (The easiest way to do this is to select the grid you want in the Code block then click the "Code" button located above the posting message text area.)
Finally, don't forget to preview you message before posting to make sure it does look the way you intend it to.
Code: | *-----------------------------------------------------------*
| 4 5 1 | 69 7 69 | 2 8 3 |
| 2 9 8 | 3 5 4 | 7 6 1 |
| 6 3 7 | 1 28 28 | 45 45 9 |
|-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
| 7 2 6 | 489 3489 1 | 458 345 58 |
| 35 1 4 | 28 238 258 | 9 7 6 |
| 359 8 359 | 7 3469 569 | 1 345 2 |
|-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
| 1 4 25 | 268 268 3 | 58 9 7 |
| 39 7 239 | 5 2489 289 | 6 1 48 |
| 8 6 59 | 49 1 7 | 3 2 45 |
*-----------------------------------------------------------* |
luis55 wrote: | I also missed the basic moves that rkral mentions plus I can eliminate 5 in r6c3 due to 5 in r7c3 and r9c3. But I’m still stuck... |
Look for "locked candidates" (see http://angusj.com/sudoku/hints.php#locked_candidates_1) in boxes 4 and 6 (candidates 9 and 8 respectively). |
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| luis55
| Joined: 18 Mar 2006 | Posts: 4 | : | Location: Oporto - Portugal | Items |
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Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
Thanks a lot for your help, this was a 5-star (most difficult) puzzle in the newspaper (Jornal de Noticias, Oporto) but it was not so difficult after all, I just missed a lot of basic moves. Yesterday I downloaded de Susser solver and I hope it will help me to avoid missing the obvious moves. I'm sorry and again, thanks a lot for your help.
Regarding posting the puzzles in legible form, I'm still struggling. I'm using courier as angusj and ruud mention but still not working. Will keep on working on this. Thanks again. |
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| luis55
| Joined: 18 Mar 2006 | Posts: 4 | : | Location: Oporto - Portugal | Items |
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Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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I found it! The problem in posting a puzzle in the right format was that I was using tabs... I just taped the numbers and did space and put them in line and that did the trick! No tabs! Thanks again. |
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| AndyT
| Joined: 27 Jan 2006 | Posts: 15 | : | Location: Hong Kong | Items |
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Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:36 am Post subject: |
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On the subject of tricky puzzles, I've just found these 2. Interestingly - or maybe not - Angus' program offers no hints very quickly. I get stuck (I refuse to guess). Can any of you gurus offer advice/techniques?
Thanks, Andy
Last edited by AndyT on Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| Alpha
| Joined: 31 Mar 2006 | Posts: 3 | : | | Items |
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Hello,
I'm learning the solving techniques and I'm stuck with this puzzle:
Code: |
*--------------------------------------------------*
| 79 8 126 | 23 13 26 | 4 5 79 |
| 27 5 4 | 9 8 126 | 3 1267 127 |
| 3 129 126 | 7 5 4 | 19 269 8 |
|----------------+----------------+----------------|
| 29 29 8 | 5 4 3 | 6 17 17 |
| 1 7 3 | 6 2 9 | 8 4 5 |
| 6 4 5 | 1 7 8 | 2 39 39 |
|----------------+----------------+----------------|
| 5 3 12 | 8 6 7 | 19 29 4 |
| 4 12 9 | 23 13 5 | 7 8 6 |
| 8 6 7 | 4 9 12 | 5 123 123 |
*--------------------------------------------------*
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I'm almost sure that naked/hidden subsets, locked candidates, X-Wing and Swordfish can't be applied in this situation.
The next technique I'll learn is Colouring or Forcing Chains, and I wanted to know which one is needed in this concrete example.
Thank you very much for spending your time. |
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| AndyT
| Joined: 27 Jan 2006 | Posts: 15 | : | Location: Hong Kong | Items |
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Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Colours on 1 |
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| Alpha
| Joined: 31 Mar 2006 | Posts: 3 | : | | Items |
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Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:31 am Post subject: |
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Thanks AndyT, I'm impressed by how soon you answered
I've read a little about the colouring technique, but I still don't know how to do it properly. I'm going to surf by these forums to learn it. |
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| Alpha
| Joined: 31 Mar 2006 | Posts: 3 | : | | Items |
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Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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As you know how to continue, I'd like to make you another question.
I think I finally understood the colouring technique, and I just wanted to check.
In the same puzzle:
Code: |
*--------------------------------------------------*
| 79 8 126 | 23 13 26 | 4 5 79 |
| 27 5 4 | 9 8 126 | 3 1267 127 |
| 3 129 126 | 7 5 4 | 19 269 8 |
|----------------+----------------+----------------|
| 29 29 8 | 5 4 3 | 6 17 17 |
| 1 7 3 | 6 2 9 | 8 4 5 |
| 6 4 5 | 1 7 8 | 2 39 39 |
|----------------+----------------+----------------|
| 5 3 12 | 8 6 7 | 19 29 4 |
| 4 12 9 | 23 13 5 | 7 8 6 |
| 8 6 7 | 4 9 12 | 5 123 123 |
*--------------------------------------------------*
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I've applied colours on 1 like these:
Code: |
..B|.G.|...
...|..B|.11
.B1|...|B..
---+---+---
...|...|.11
...|...|...
...|...|...
---+---+---
..B|...|G..
.G.|.B.|...
...|..G|.11
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So the conclusion is I can delete all 1's coloured with Blue, because of the conflicts in row 3, or column 3 or block 1, isn't it?
Thanks again |
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| angusj Site Admin
| Joined: 18 Jun 2005 | Posts: 406 | : | | Items |
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Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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Alpha wrote: | So the conclusion is I can delete all 1's coloured with Blue, because of the conflicts in row 3, or column 3 or block 1, isn't it? |
Yes, that's correct.
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