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A very hard sudoku puzzle please try it
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strmckr

Joined: 24 Apr 2009
Posts: 52
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Code:

. 3 . |. 2 5 |7 . .
1 . . |. 3 4 |. . .
. . . |. . . |. 6 .
------+------+-----
5 . . |8 . . |. . .
6 . . |. . 3 |. . 7
. . 1 |. . . |. 2 6
------+------+-----
. . 2 |. . . |. . 9
. 4 . |7 . . |. . .
. . . |2 . . |6 8 .


after ss steps
Almost Locked Set XZ-Rule: A=r359c3 {3459}, B=r1258c8 {13459}, X=4, Z=3 => r8c3,r9c9<>3

1 single then
Almost Locked Set XZ-Rule: A=r18c3 {568}, B=r1349c9 {13458}, X=8, Z=5 => r8c89,r9c2<>5
singles to the end


Code:
. . 8 |3 1 . |6 . .
. . . |. . 4 |. . .
. . . |. 9 . |. . 3
------+------+-----
. . . |5 . 9 |. . .
8 . . |1 . . |. 3 .
6 . 2 |. . . |8 . 9
------+------+-----
2 5 . |6 . . |. . .
. . 9 |. 2 . |. . 7
. . . |. . . |1 . .

alot of singles then:

Skyscraper: 5 in r1c9,r2c5 (connected by r9c59) => r1c6,r2c7<>5
singles to the end.

Code:
. . . |6 7 . |. . 9
1 6 . |. . . |. . .
. . . |. . . |. 5 .
------+------+-----
. . . |. . 8 |4 . .
. . 4 |. . . |8 1 .
. 7 . |. . 9 |. . .
------+------+-----
. 3 . |9 5 . |. . .
8 . . |. . . |. . .
4 . . |. 2 . |1 7 3

after ss
Almost Locked Set XZ-Rule: A=r4c5 {36}, B=r146c1 {2356}, X=3, Z=6 => r4c3<>6
singles to the end.

Code:
. . . |3 . . |9 . 8
. . . |. . 8 |5 . .
. . . |. 9 . |. . 1
------+------+-----
9 5 2 |. . 4 |6 . .
. . . |. . . |. . 5
8 . . |. . . |4 1 .
------+------+-----
. . 6 |7 . 9 |3 . .
. . 4 |. . . |. 6 .
5 . 8 |. 6 . |. . 9


after ss
Empty Rectangle: 7 in b6 (r8c19) => r5c1<>7
XYZ-Wing: 2/3/7 in r45c5,r5c7 => r5c6<>7
W-Wing: 7/3 in r4c5,r6c3 connected by 3 in r46c9 => r6c56<>7
Locked Candidates Type 1 (Pointing): 7 in b5 => r12c5<>7
Finned X-Wing: 7 r29 c28 fr2c1 => r1c2<>7

Almost Locked Set XZ-Rule: A=r7c1 {12}, B=r13c3,r2c12,r3c1 {123457}, X=2, Z=1 => r1c1<>1

Almost Locked Set XZ-Rule: A=r2c125 {1347}, B=r3c36 {357}, X=3, Z=7 => r3c1<>7

Almost Locked Set XZ-Rule: A=r3c67 {257}, B=r6c2369 {23567}, X=5, Z=2 => r5c7<>2

more singles then
Naked Triple: 1,5,3 in r13c3,r2c2 => r1c2,r2c1<>1

XYZ-Wing: 5/4/1 in r1c35,r2c5 => r1c6<>1
singles to the end.

{this was the more difficult of the 4 posted}
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NewUrbanBlues

Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 36
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 4:55 pm    Post subject: Solver Logic Reply with quote

Hello strmckr

I agree with you. Logic should solved any boards...

Can you elaborate more about this technique ? What is its name ? Is there some Web pages explaining the logic behind ?

Thanks

Thierry
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lkSudoku

Joined: 16 May 2009
Posts: 60
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In mathematical terms, there should exist a logic that solves all SuDoKu boards without backtracking, however this is only in theoretical term

All known logical methods that do not require backtracking are likely to cover only part of the entire logical space and thus when applying only known logical methods that are not equivalent to backtracking, it is not certain that they do solve any puzzle
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strmckr

Joined: 24 Apr 2009
Posts: 52
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://sudokuone.com/

Set Theory:

the logic behind takes alot of understanding matrics.

and there specific arangment limits.

there isnt any simplistic way to explain how it works.

are you familar with the sk loop? (first seen to solve easter monster)

if you are it is a prime example of a cover matrics limit.

16 cells with 4 digits
each so that all digits are covered exactly 4 times thus all intersections between the 16 cells cannot contain the 4 digits.


Quote:
In mathematical terms, there should exist a logic that solves all SuDoKu boards without backtracking, however this is only in theoretical term

All known logical methods that do not require backtracking are likely to cover only part of the entire logical space and thus when applying only known logical methods that are not equivalent to backtracking, it is not certain that they do solve any puzzle


there is an open thread on here that shows how to use dlx to find all cover sets.

http://www.setbb.com/sudoku/viewtopic.php?t=1747&mforum=sudoku

and is based on allan's coverset modles.

and has been sucessfully used to show an exact cover matrics that after application reduces a grid to all singles.

and this also works on all grids.

this method is the only appoarch that i have seen working that can solve all puzzles with none t&E logic.
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lkSudoku

Joined: 16 May 2009
Posts: 60
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps another question should be asked:

Suppose we have any sudoku grid of size NxN where N is not a constant, can the solution be computed in time polynomial in N?

Is the NxN sudoku puzzle an NP-Hard problem?

Or, in simpler terms, can any NxN sudoku puzzle be solved in time that is not exponential in N?

A polynomial time algorithm rules out the set cover method, the trial and error method, and probably some other methods
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gsf

Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 411
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Location: NJ USA

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lkSudoku wrote:
Perhaps another question should be asked:

Suppose we have any sudoku grid of size NxN where N is not a constant, can the solution be computed in time polynomial in N?

Is the NxN sudoku puzzle an NP-Hard problem?

Or, in simpler terms, can any NxN sudoku puzzle be solved in time that is not exponential in N?

A polynomial time algorithm rules out the set cover method, the trial and error method, and probably some other methods

NxN sudoku is NP-complete
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