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Same set variants

 
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gypsy fly

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18
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Location: Portland OR USA

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:56 am    Post subject: Same set variants Reply with quote

I'd like to generate and print out a set of increasingly difficult sudokus out of the same answer set. How do I do that and with which generator?
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daj95376

Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 349
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a puzzle generator that's still in development. However, I may be able to help.

My generator creates a filled grid and then tries to create a difficult puzzle from it. Because I randomly select symmetric cell pairs as I generate the puzzle from the filled grid, I end up with puzzles of varying degrees of difficulty right now. As I continue to develop the generator, I hope to consistently produce difficut puzzles.

I could easily alter my source to take one filled grid and repeatedly generate puzzles from it. You could take the results and see if any meet your needs.

Are you interested?
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gypsy fly

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18
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Location: Portland OR USA

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to use these sets of puzzles to teach sudoku to kids/beginners. The goal of have them discover how they think. So, as far a techniques are concerned, I don't think anything past pointing pairs would be needed.

In our local paper daily sudoku, one seldom needs anything past one pointing pairs. The rest of the solutions are locked or hidden singles. The difficulty level seems to be determined by tedium rather than advanced solving techniques.

So, I was wondering what the effect would be on the solver if the answer set was the same for five puzzles in ascending difficulty. It's quite possible that by the third puzzle, most would discover the trick. It's exactly the same puzzle. At that point I suspect they'll start trying to figure out why they're having difficulty figuring out the current one when the previous ones were "easier".

If you have a generator handy, please let me try it.

Thanks in advance!
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m_b_metcalf

Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 210
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Location: Berlin

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

If you have a generator handy, please let me try it.

Thanks in advance!


Here's a set of five with the same solution. I can send you many more by e-mail if you're interested.

Regards,

Mike Metcalf

Code:

  3  8                 7  4
  5        4     7        9
  4           2           8
     2     6     4     3   
        4  7     2  6     
     3     5     8     4   
  7           5           3
  2        3     1        6
  1  9                 2  5
 
 Difficulty Index 9


        9  1     5  2     
  5  1                 6  9
        6           1     
  8           9           7
           7  3  2         
  6           1           2
        8           4     
  2  4                 9  6
        3  8     6  7     

 Difficulty Index 15

        9  1     5  2     
     1  2  4     7  3  6   
                           
  8        6     4        7
              3           
  6        5     8        2
                           
     4  5  3     1  8  9   
        3  8     6  7     

 Difficulty Index 20

     8                 7   
  5           8           9
        6  9     3  1     
        1  6     4  5     
     5                 8   
        7  5     8  9     
        8  2     9  4     
  2           7           6
     9                 2   

 Difficulty Index 25

  3     9           2     4
  5        4     7        9
     7                 5   
        1  6     4  5     
     5        3        8   
        7  5     8  9     
     6                 1   
  2        3     1        6
  1     3           7     5
 
 Difficulty Index 30
 
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gsf

Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 411
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Location: NJ USA

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the Difficulty Index 25 only has singles
why does it rank higher than the previous one with box/line and pairs?
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daj95376

Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 349
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My puzzle generator is far from ready for distribution. However, its such that I can generate a single filled grid and generate different puzzles from it.

After generating 100 puzzles, I ran them through QQwing and extracted those with an Intermediate difficulty rating. You can sift through my results and see if any meet your needs. (There weren't any with an Easy rating.)

Code:
Solution
197832645562497318834561927356718294749256831281943756473189562925674183618325479

Puzzle,Givens,Singles,Hidden Singles,Naked Pairs,Hidden Pairs,Pointing Pairs/Triples,Box/Line Intersections
.......4..6.4.73..8.....9...5...82..74.....31..19...5...3.....2..56.4.8..1.......,24,51, 6,1,1,1,1
.......45.6..973.....5.19.73.6..8.......5.......9..7.64.31.9.....567..8.61.......,27,41,13,1,0,1,0
......64.5.2.97...8.45...........29.7...5...1.81...........95.2...67.1.3.18......,25,46,10,5,0,0,0
....32.4..62.....8..45...27...71...4....5....2...43...47...95..9.....18..1.32....,27,48, 6,1,0,1,0
....3264.5.......8.34..1.....6..8.9..4.....3..8.9..7.....1..56.9.......3.1832....,26,35,20,1,0,0,0
...8.2..5.6.4.......4...92...671..9.7..2.6..1.8..437...73...5.......4.8.6..3.5...,28,46, 7,4,1,1,1
...8.2.4556..9......4.6.9.7..67.....7...5...1.....37..4.3.8.5......7..8361.3.5...,29,40,12,0,0,1,0
...83..4.56.4.7.....4...9........29.7.9.5.8.1.81........3...5.....6.4.83.1..25...,27,42,12,4,0,0,0
...832.45.6..9.3....45........7..2...4.2.6.3...1..3........95....5.7..8.61.325...,28,33,20,2,0,0,0
..7...6..5.2.9...8..456..2....7....4..9...8..2....3....7..895..9...7.1.3..8...4..,26,41,14,1,0,0,0
..7..26.55.....3..8.4.6...7...7.82..7.......1..19.3...4...8.5.2..5.....36.83..4..,28,44, 9,3,0,1,0
..7.32.4..62.....8..4....2.3..71..9.....5.....8..43..6.7....5..9.....18..1.32.4..,27,46, 8,1,0,3,0
..78...4.562....18......9..3...18..4.4..5..3.2..94...6..3......92....183.1...54..,29,36,16,1,0,0,0
..783....56.........4..1..7...7.8.94.4.2.6.3.28.9.3...4..1..5.........83....254..,28,39,14,2,0,0,0
.9.83..455.24...1.....6..........29..4.....3..81..........8.....2...41.361..25.7.,26,40,15,2,0,1,0
.97..26...62497...8...........7..2...4.256.3...1..3...........2...67418...83..47.,29,37,15,1,0,0,0
.97.3.....6.....18.34.6...7....182.....2.6.....194....4...8.56.92.....8.....2.47.,28,47, 6,1,0,0,0
.978..6...6...7.1...4.....7...71.2....9.5.8....1.43...4.....5...2.6...8...8..547.,27,34,20,3,0,0,0
.978.26...6.49.3....4...9......18....4.2.6.3....94......3...5....5.74.8...83.547.,30,47, 4,1,0,0,0
.978.26.5.6.........45.....3..7.8.9.7.......1.8.9.3..6.....95.........8.6.83.547.,28,40,13,0,0,1,0
.9783.64.56.4.......4.........7182...4.....3...1943.........5.......4.83.18.2547.,30,44, 7,0,0,4,0
1.....6...624..3.8..4...92.....18..4.4..5..3.2..94.....73...5..9.5..418...8.....9,29,47, 5,1,0,0,0
1....26...6....3.....5..9.73.671........5........437.64.3..9.....5....8...83....9,25,35,21,2,0,0,0
1....26.5.6.4..3.......1.2..5.7....4.4..5..3.2....3.5..7.1.......5..4.8.6.83....9,27,36,18,1,0,1,0
1...3...5.624...1...4....2.3....829.....5.....819....6.7....5...2...418.6...2...9,27,42,12,0,0,1,0
1...3264.56.4.7.....4.........71.2...49...83...1.43.........5.....6.4.83.1832...9,30,44, 7,1,0,0,0
1..8326..56.49......4...9.....7....4.4.2.6.3.2....3.....3...5......74.83..8325..9,30,37,14,3,0,0,2
1.7......56..9......4561.....6....9..4.256.3..8....7.....1895......7..83......4.9,27,50, 4,3,0,2,1
1.7.....5.6.49...8....6..2....7..29..4..5..3..81..3....7..8....9...74.8.6.....4.9,27,39,15,1,0,0,0
1.7...6.556..9.......5...2....7..29.7..2.6..1.81..3....7...9.......7..836.8...4.9,28,30,23,1,2,4,1
1.7.3.6.5.62....18.......2.3..7.8....4.....3....9.3..6.7.......92....18.6.8.2.4.9,28,51, 2,2,0,0,0
1.78..6......9..18.....1...3......94.4.2.6.3.28......6...1.....92..7......8..54.9,26,45,10,0,1,2,1
1.783...5.624...1.....61...3.6...2..7.......1..1...7.6...18.....2...418.6...254.9,30,39,12,1,0,0,0
19...26...6......8...5...2....71.2.4.4..5..3.2.1.43....7...9...9......8...83...79,27,39,15,1,0,0,0
19..326...6.4..3.88.........5....2..7.......1..1....5.........29.5..4.8...832..79,26,41,14,1,0,0,0
19.8.26.5.62.........5.........1..9..4.2.6.3..8..4.........9.........18.6.83.5.79,26,50, 5,0,0,1,0
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m_b_metcalf

Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 210
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Location: Berlin

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gsf wrote:
the Difficulty Index 25 only has singles
why does it rank higher than the previous one with box/line and pairs?


Good question. My algorithm assesses difficulty after a first pass where it clears out the 'obvious' stuff, and counts only from that point on. The 25 puzzle then acquires more 'points' on various items, finishing up 'more' difficult'. If I have time, I'll solve them both by hand this weekend to see whether I agree with the program.

Regards,

Mike Metcalf
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