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What are the technics to use

 
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AlanLudo

Joined: 13 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:33 pm    Post subject: What are the technics to use Reply with quote

Actually, most of the puzzle can be solved with pretty basic technics.
I personally dont go beyond quad.
I have never used swordfish or X-wing
But how to recognise such pattern?

Alan
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strmckr

Joined: 24 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Actually, most of the puzzle can be solved with pretty basic techniques.


not true, 85% of newspaper or distributed puzzles can be solved with a very simplistic solving techniques.

there are far more puzzles that require beyond these,

for example:
platnum blonde
.......12........3..23..4....18....5.6..7.8.......9.....85.....9...4.5..47...6...

Code:
.----------------------.------------------------.-----------------------.
| 35678  34589  345679 | 4679    5689    4578   | 679     1       2     |
| 15678  14589  45679  | 124679  125689  124578 | 679     56789   3     |
| 15678  1589   2      | 3       15689   1578   | 4       56789   6789  |
:----------------------+------------------------+-----------------------:
| 237    2349   1      | 8       236     234    | 23679   234679  5     |
| 235    6      3459   | 124     7       12345  | 8       2349    149   |
| 23578  23458  3457   | 1246    12356   9      | 12367   23467   1467  |
:----------------------+------------------------+-----------------------:
| 1236   123    8      | 5       1239    1237   | 123679  234679  14679 |
| 9      123    36     | 127     4       12378  | 5       23678   1678  |
| 4      7      35     | 129     12389   6      | 1239    2389    189   |
'----------------------'------------------------'-----------------------'


however they are never printed due to the level of frustration they will invoke to an average solver. coupled with the length of time to solve also becomes impractical to solver via a commute ride.
Quote:

I have never used swordfish or X-wing
But how to recognise such pattern?


use pm's for the single digit only then look for the patterns
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AlanLudo

Joined: 13 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, that was actually something I noticed as the solver I developed is using quads as theist difficult solving technic and so far none of the puzzle I found on news paper or so have been insolvable by my engine.

I didn't precisely get what you wanted to say about the swordfish pattern recognition ?

Cheers,

Alan
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strmckr

Joined: 24 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

here it is for x-wings, the same idea is for NxN fish constraints.

two rows / columns where there is only 4 digits.

the digits of N form a rectangle shape.

where each digit see one digit on the opposite row.

the eliminations occur in opposite direction to where the digits line up.

( if its two rows. eliminate on columns,
if its two columns eliminate on rows)

to understand how the elimination works

try placing a N on the board, the opposite corner is always true.

thus no matter which way the rectangle solves the x's are never true


Code:
/  /  N | / / / | / / N
.  .  x | . . . | . . x
.  .  x | . . . | . . x
--------+-------+-------
/  /  N | / / / | / / N
.  .  x | . . . | . . x
.  .  x | . . . | . . x
--------+-------+-------
.  .  x | . . . | . . x
.  .  x | . . . | . . x
.  .  x | . . . | . . x


Quote:
KEY: '/' <=> cells void of candidate 'N'
'N' <=> cells with candidate 'N'; all are required
"-X" <=> potential eliminations of candidate 'N'


Example on Rows

digit 1

on Rows 4 and 7 there is only 2 locations per row where the digits 1 are
they form a rectangle shape.
eliminate all the ones on the columns.

Code:
.-----------------.-------------------------.--------------------.
| 1    1346  2    | 146     46-1     7      | 9     5       8    |
| 7    456   4589 | 45689   45689    4689   | 1     2       3    |
| 189  1456  4589 | 145689  245689-1  3     | 467   467     47   |
:-----------------+-------------------------+--------------------:
| 5    9     48   | 7     1248@     1248@   | 3     48      6    |
| 128  147   478  | 14689  234689-1  24689-1| 478   4789    4579 |
| 3    47    6    | 489     489      5      | 478   1       2    |
:-----------------+-------------------------+--------------------:
| 9    57    579  | 2       1456789@ 14689@ | 4678  346789  479  |
| 6    8     3    | 459     4579     49     | 247   479     1    |
| 4    2     1    | 3       6789     689    | 5     6789    79   |
'-----------------'-------------------------'--------------------'

1 r47 c56 => r135c5,r5c6<>1
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champagne

Joined: 14 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

strmckr wrote:


for example:
platinum blonde
.......12........3..23..4....18....5.6..7.8.......9.....85.....9...4.5..47...6...
however they are never printed due to the level of frustration they will invoke to an average solver. coupled with the length of time to solve also becomes impractical to solver via a commute ride.


Hi strmckr,

I was just prepared to publish a "relatively short" solution to Platinium Blonde combining "ttt"s findings and my solver path (before I introduce changes in the solver to be in a position to produce such a path) when the player's forum vanished.

I understand from others that I have first to post 5 messages before I can use links that are necesssary to do it.

I start now and I will continue if you are interested.

champagne
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strmckr

Joined: 24 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I was just prepared to publish a "relatively short" solution to Platinium Blonde combining "ttt"s findings and my solver path (before I introduce changes in the solver to be in a position to produce such a path) when the player's forum vanished.


a short solution outside my own would be interesting to see, however the puzzle was used merely as an example of something more complex ie outside the newspaper printed puzzle.
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champagne

Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 6
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

strmckr wrote:

a short solution outside my own would be interesting to see, however the puzzle was used merely as an example of something more complex ie outside the newspaper printed puzzle.


I don't know what is your solution. I only know for that puzzle what has been done by "ttt" and "Allan Barker".

The path I am working on is using intensively Aur's (the start of ttt) and virus chains.

where was published your solution??

champagne
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strmckr

Joined: 24 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

no i didn't post my findings:

the most i've done with the monster puzzles is identify interesting virus type patterns

here by Allan confirmed there existence with his program (i've only done it to a few of the monsters)

i'll see if i can remember exactly what i used in solving and post it

{i lost a lot of my work on a reformat after my computer was hacked}

cheers
strmckr.
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