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Players Forums, anything wrong ?!
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Pat

Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 128
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dpbobelisk wrote:

    Hi all, it's David P Bird here
    for those that don't make the connection with my login name here or at Sudopedia.

      I don't think I can register twice here with different names, so would welcome a Personal Message on this site with login instructions for any new site that can be set up.

yes, you may need to use a separate e-mail address to obtain a 2nd registration
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evert

Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 68
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Location: Amsterdam

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

champagne wrote:
The key issue seems to build (or find) a structure to collect "legally" the money and control the forum.

champagne

ps: may be this is not of a big interest, but at least, I reached the necessary 5 posts to put links if necessary Very Happy

Probably voluntary donations would work.
Maybe slight advantages for the users that actually have donated, like the ability to put links Laughing
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scottgould

Joined: 22 Apr 2010
Posts: 1
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi folks,

Scott Gould here. Some of you may remember me from sudoku-dot-com's pre-Real Networks days. Pat suggested I stop by.

I'm afraid I have no actual information to impart just yet, but I will do what I can to help recover/preserve the former Sudoku Players' forums. Without going into too much detail, we must trust in Real's good graces -- there is rarely anything that any site provider is *obligated* to do for its users, and if they want to simply retire the forums they are well within their rights to do so. I will inquire with them as to whether, in order of preference:

1. The Players' forums can be restored as-is
1. The content can be restored in what appear to be the new official forums
2. The database can be provided and permission granted to re-establish the forums at a new location

I've been on the user-end of this in another community and sadly such appeals fell on deaf ears. In this case, though, I'm sure Real will appreciate the wealth of knowledge and historical interest that the old Players' forums contained.

Regards
Scott
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ronk

Joined: 15 Apr 2010
Posts: 9
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Location: Southeastern USA

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:35 am    Post subject: update from nhernandez Reply with quote

here nhernandez wrote:
Here's an update on the old server.

We have brought the machine here to this building and our IT people are currently trying to see if any data is retrievable. When they powered on the machine the drive was making a clicking sound which is a bad sign in the data recovery department but they are looking into it now regardless.

As for back ups the forum database hasn't been backed up since 2007. We do have those files though so worst case you will get everything up to that date.

2007? Is that when Real Networks purchased the sudoku.com domain?
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wapati

Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 622
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Location: Canada

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a web archive at http://www.archive.org/web/web.php

It is not very up to date but much of the stuff we want is old. I was looking at it but my connection timed out a lot.

Are there other archives available?
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JasonLion

Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 61
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Location: Silver Spring, MD

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wapati wrote:
There is a web archive at http://www.archive.org/web/web.php
I have been through their archive looking for pages from the forum. They don't have anything newer than 2008, and even from back then they mostly only have the main forum index. Every now and then they caught another page or two. If you go further back 2006 or 2007 they have more but it remains full of gaps and isn't anywhere near complete. Overall it didn't seem all that useful.
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ttt

Joined: 15 Apr 2010
Posts: 1
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Location: vietnam

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In fact, I intend and want (or like?) to retire... then I should not post here, but I think that SudokuLand come to dead: not much things we would be found more for sudoku. So, we should forget it...
Iím sorry if somethingís wrong... I was drunk too too too... much.

ttt
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Pat

Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 128
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttt wrote:

    not much things we would be found more for sudoku

thinking about the newer stuff in the forum,
for me it is the important comments of ano1
on the methods for finding 17-clue puzzles;
for others, probably the "NoFish" discussion---
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Pat

Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 128
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:02 am    Post subject: main index of the lost forum Reply with quote


        the lost forum
        had 6 divisions ( "Categories" )
        containing 17 sections ( "Forums" )


    these were the 6 divisions ( "Categories" ),
    in order of appearance
    ( note the "Categories" are numbered differently ) --

          A "Category" # ( c= )
          B name

      1;Sudoku: the computer program from Pappocom
      2;Sudoku: the puzzle
      3;Sudoku: in papers and publications
      6;Other Logic puzzles
      4;Third-party contributions
      5;Off-Topic


    and these were the 17 sections ( "Forums" )
    in order of appearance

          A "Forum" # ( f= )
          B name
          C "Category" # ( c= )
          D position within "Category"
          E description

      22;Announcements;1;1;Messages of note to the Sudoku Players community
      5;Wishlist;1;2;Things you would like to see added, removed or changed
      2;Support;1;3;Fixes, workarounds and general technical issues

      17;Help with particular puzzles;2;1;Post the puzzle that's causing you trouble and get help with solving it
      3;Advanced solving techniques;2;2;Advanced methods and approaches for solving Sudoku puzzles
      4;General/puzzle;2;3;Everything else
      23;Interactive Games;2;4;Interactive game threads go here.

      12;Pappocom papers;3;1;About papers which run Pappocom puzzles, and the way they run them
      8;Sudoku Books from Pappocom;3;2;General comments or questions about the books and their puzzles
      9;Non-Pappocom;3;3;Non-Pappocom puzzles, Japanese publications and the rest of the papers
      18;Sudoku variants;3;4;For fans of Killer Sudoku, Samurai Sudoku and other variants

      19;Kakuro;6;1;For fans of Kakuro
      20;Other Logic puzzles;6;2;For fans of all other kinds of Logic puzzles
      21;Inventors' Studio;6;3;Notes on possible new Logic puzzles

      10;Library books and puzzles;4;1;Where to find downloadable Sudoku Library books and special-interest puzzles
      11;Solver programs;4;2;A forum for the Solver-program industry

      16;Off-Topic;5;1;Anything goes, but keep it seemly...
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Pat

Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 128
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ronk wrote:
2007?
Is that when Real Networks purchased the sudoku dot com domain?

yes
    under heading Farewell, Son of Pappocom (2007.Jun.8 23:06 GMT) wrote:
    Hi folks,

    Well, it's been an eventful two and a half years. Despite the odd hiccup on our part, you have collectively established the most intelligent Sudoku forum to be found anywhere. Wayne fondly recalls watching a thread in the early days wherein the x-wing technique was excitedly discovered. The level of discussion since then has only become more sophisticated, and rare is the thread nowadays that doesn't make our heads spin.

    But now we're handing over the reins. Sudoku-dot-com and these forums will endure, but not on our servers. We have every confidence that their new home will grant the kind of resources and opportunities that we could never have provided.

    Sudoku the program, of course, will be unaffected (aside from having a shiny new website). For anything program-related, you will be able to find us at www.WayneGouldPuzzles.com.

    Thanks so much to all of you.

    Wayne & Scott Gould
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wapati

Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 622
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Location: Canada

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ruud still has a website.

Perhaps he would host?

Lep, I know, it is still there.
Money might make it work.
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ronk

Joined: 15 Apr 2010
Posts: 9
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wapati wrote:
Ruud still has a website.

Perhaps he would host?

AFAIK Ruud is OK, but he is no longer active in the sudoku community. He was once a moderator on this forum, but his last post was Jan 2008. By his website, I assume you mean http://www.sudocue.net/forum/ ... which has had but one post since Jul 2009. Ruud has presumably been paying the hosting fee.

One further concern, Ruud may have (and still be) the only account owner for the sudopedia.org site. But, heaven forbid, what if he is hit by a truck?
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JasonLion

Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 61
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Location: Silver Spring, MD

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been working on setting up a replacement forum. gsf and I transferred the user name list last week and have been exploring ways to restore what old posts we can find. I was hoping to have the whole thing up by now, but restoring old posts has proven to be more work than expected.

Restoring old posts involves some disruption to the server, including periods where the forum needs to be turned off, so I have been hoping to do that before going public. If there is enough interest, we could open up the new forum without any of the old posts. I haven't been thinking in those terms, but it is possible to have the new forum up quite quickly without any of the history.

Another reason I have been waiting is because it still isn't clear to me what Real Networks will be able and want to do. I don't want to step on their toes if they can actually come up with a solution.

My new forum is hosted on one of my web servers. To address any concerns about future problems, I propose to give access to full site backups to the moderators of the forum. These backups could be used to restore the forum somewhere else quite quickly if anything should happen to me or to the web server.

When and if this gets going, if others can help pay a portion of the expenses of setting up and running the new forum, that would be really nice. When the new forum is up and running, there will be a way to donate money to help share in paying the costs. If donations aren't sufficient, we can explore the possibility of having paid accounts, but right now that seems like it will just be more trouble all around.
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DonM

Joined: 15 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JasonLion wrote:
When and if this gets going, if others can help pay a portion of the expenses of setting up and running the new forum, that would be really nice. When the new forum is up and running, there will be a way to donate money to help share in paying the costs. If donations aren't sufficient, we can explore the possibility of having paid accounts, but right now that seems like it will just be more trouble all around.


I've been giving this some thought. The problem with general voluntary donations is that it is more likely that very few will donate. So, one possibility is to have something like a 'Founder's Section' of the forum. There would be a certain amount donated annually per member of the Founder's Section (or whatever name one wants to come up with) to keep the forum going.

There would be a section of the forum only available to 'Founders' who would be able to comment on things related to the direction & management of the forum and whatnot. The moderator's of the forum would come from members of that section and could be rotated annually. There might be some perks (can't think of any at the moment though) for members of that section.

Each year these members would be asked to give the amount necessary to keep the forum going. If anyone chose to no longer do so, that would be fine: the password to the Founder's section could be changed annually so that those who no longer donated would simply not have access to that section anymore.

Jason- do you have a general idea as to the general annual cost of keeping a forum like this going?
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hobiwan

Joined: 11 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DonM wrote:
I've been giving this some thought. The problem with general voluntary donations is that it is more likely that very few will donate. So, one possibility is to have something like a 'Founder's Section' of the forum. There would be a certain amount donated annually per member of the Founder's Section (or whatever name one wants to come up with) to keep the forum going.


I think that would just overcomplicate things. There are maybe 20 active posters on the forum. If everyone agrees to donate 10 USD pa, that should be more than enough.

JasonLion, many thanks to you and gsf for your efforts. If you have any programming tasks needed done I would be happy to help.
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