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| m_b_metcalf
| | Joined: 13 Mar 2006 | | Posts: 210 | | : | | Location: Berlin |
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 Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| ququman wrote: | I would like to submit a puzzle that is harder than the Easter Monster. I would like your opinions on this puzzle:
090030006
004500000
800001000
020090300
006000002
500000070
000700500
000008010
003060004
Let me know what you think. |
I think it would have been a courtesy to have provided some proof, for instance the Sudoku Explainer ratings. Yours rates at 11.4/11.4/3.4. What's the Easter Monster's? A good puzzle though!
Regards,
Mike Metcalf |
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| ququman
| | Joined: 30 Jun 2006 | | Posts: 4 | | : | |
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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The Easter Monster is posted on the previous page of this topic. According to Ruud's SudoCue program, the Easter Monster's rating is 13541. The rating of the puzzle I posted was 25287.
I am interested in hearing from Ruud, what is his highest rated puzzle is. Does anyone have a higher rating than 26000? |
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| tarek
| | Joined: 31 Dec 2005 | | Posts: 153 | | : | | Location: London, UK |
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| ququman wrote: | | Does anyone have a higher rating than 26000? |
We haven't used Ruud's SudoCue for rating simply because it uses brute force after exhausting all techniques, Reshuffling the hardest puzzles usually gives different ratings.
Read the following:
http://www.sudoku.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=6539&start=0
The second post in that thread has many links as well.
tarek |
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| ququman
| | Joined: 30 Jun 2006 | | Posts: 4 | | : | |
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:27 am Post subject: |
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| Sorry, your knowledge is far over my head. |
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| tarek
| | Joined: 31 Dec 2005 | | Posts: 153 | | : | | Location: London, UK |
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| ququman wrote: | | Sorry, your knowledge is far over my head. |
With that fine puzzle, I'm sure that you're not far behind 
A group of forum members have been looking into hardest sudokus since 2005 .......
by reading through the threads linked in the 2nd post of thread mentioned above, you can trace back all of these efforts.
I'm sure that everything from there will be much clearer.
tarek |
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| willem
| | Joined: 26 Sep 2009 | | Posts: 3 | | : | |
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| Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:42 am Post subject: Re: what is the hardest known suduko ? |
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[quote="dukuso"]seems that there is no accepted measure for "hardness",
but anyway ...
OK, I found this one, posted it yesterday but deleted it again
after I realized that my solver rated it much less hard,
when I rotated it or just changed the order of processing
the moves.
Anyway, here it is again:
[code]
7..-...-.19
46.-19.-...
...-682-7.4
------------
.9.-...-..7
...-3..-4.5
..6-7..-...
------------
..1-...-...
2..-.74-...
...-2..-3..
[/code]
>this is the hardest sudoku, which my computer could find
>with hillclimbing in some hours.
>It requires 199 guesses and 11574 placements by my program !
>There was a big gap to the 2nd hardest found,
>which required only 64 guesses and 3719 placements.[quote][code][/quote]
This is hard to solve. My wizard has great difficulty with it. Sometimes it is even not succesfull. |
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| willem
| | Joined: 26 Sep 2009 | | Posts: 3 | | : | |
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| Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:49 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Nick70"]Not that hard, can be solved withoug guessing using turbot fish / xy-wing / double forcing chains.
This one, on the other hand, cannot:
[code]..1.8.6.4
.376.....
5........
.....5...
..6.1.8..
...4.....
........3
.....752.
8.2.9.7..[/code][/quote]
Indeed this one can't be solved with my sudokuwizard :( |
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| m_b_metcalf
| | Joined: 13 Mar 2006 | | Posts: 210 | | : | | Location: Berlin |
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| Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| willem wrote: | | Code: | ..1.8.6.4
.376.....
5........
.....5...
..6.1.8..
...4.....
........3
.....752.
8.2.9.7.. |
Indeed this one can't be solved with my sudokuwizard  |
The second really is hard. This is what Sudoko Explainer has to say about both:
| Code: |
Analyzing Sudoku #1
52 Hidden Single
4 Direct Hidden Pair
5 Pointing
1 Claiming
1 Naked Pair
1 Hidden Pair
1 XY-Wing
2 Unique Rectangle type 1
Hardest technique: Unique Rectangle type 1
Difficulty: 4.5
Analyzing Sudoku #2
55 Hidden Single
4 Direct Hidden Pair
1 Naked Single
6 Pointing
4 Naked Pair
1 Unique Loop type 4
2 Turbot Fish
7 Forcing Chain
1 Nishio Forcing Chains
6 Region Forcing Chains
7 Cell Forcing Chains
3 Dynamic Cell Forcing Chains
1 Dynamic Region Forcing Chains
Hardest technique: Dynamic Cell Forcing Chains
Difficulty: 8.9 |
Regards,
Mike Metcalf |
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| Obi-Wahn
| | Joined: 21 Aug 2006 | | Posts: 15 | | : | |
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| Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| ququman wrote: | I would like to submit a puzzle that is harder than the Easter Monster. I would like your opinions on this puzzle:
090030006
004500000
800001000
020090300
006000002
500000070
000700500
000008010
003060004
Let me know what you think. |
It's a nice hard puzzle, but unfortunately it is just a permutation of Ocean's New Year's present for RW. So no new entry for my database.
And it's not harder than the Easter Monster which has a SE121 rating of 11.6.
_________________
"Though this be madness yet there is method in't." |
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| ivoc
| | Joined: 05 Mar 2010 | | Posts: 18 | | : | |
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| Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: Hardest Sudoku |
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| Code: | Grid: ..2.9.1.7.386.....4.............5.....9.1.3.....4.............4.....792.8.6.3.7..
SUDOKU powered by IC (cRoute.txt created)
POS| $| WRITTEN in RowCol(s) | OPTIONS | METHOD | ELIMINATED
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
001| | | | NakedPairROW | 5r1c4 5r1c8 6r1c8
* ROW=1, NakedPair 56
found in r1c1, r1c2
Candidates of NP removed from other Cells in THIS ROW
002| | | | PointingPairROW | 6r3c2
* 6 in Box 3 being only in Row 3
removed from other Boxes in THIS Row (if there)
003| | | | BoxReductionROW | 5r2c1 5r3c2 5r3c3
* 5 in Row 1 being only in Box 1
removed from other Rows in THIS Box (if there)
004| | | | NakedPairROW | 1r9c2 5r9c2 1r9c4 5r9c4 1r9c6
* ROW=9, NakedPair 15
found in r9c8, r9c9
Candidates of NP removed from other Cells in THIS ROW
005| | | | BoxReductionROW | 1r7c8 1r8c9
* 1 in Row 9 being only in Box 9
removed from other Rows in THIS Box (if there)
006| | | | BoxReductionROW | 5r7c7 5r7c8 5r8c9
* 5 in Row 9 being only in Box 9
removed from other Rows in THIS Box (if there)
007| | | | NakedQuadBOX | 2r4c4 7r4c4 8r4c4 2r6c6 6r6c6 8r6c6
* BOX=5, NakedQuad=2678
(Sub)Sets (at two, at three or at four) in r4c5, r5c4, r5c6, r6c5
Candidates of NQ removed from other Cells in THIS BOX
008| | | | SwordFishROW | 4r2c6 4r2c8 4r4c2 4r4c8 4r8c2
* Candidate 4 being 2- or 3-times in ROWs R1, R5 and R9
in the same COLs C2, C6 and C8
removed from other ROWs in THESE COLs (if there)
009| | | | EmptyRectROW | 6r5c9
* Candidate 6, BOX 5, leading cell R5C5,
leading COL C5.
Candidate 6 only TWICE in ROW R8
removed from cell r5c9
010| | | | EmptyRectROW | 7r5c1
* Candidate 7, BOX 5, leading cell R5C5,
leading COL C5.
Candidate 7 only TWICE in ROW R2
removed from cell r5c1
011| | | | WeddingRing_T | 8r1c6
* IF 8r1c6 then
Chain 1: 4r2c5,7r2c1,9r3c2
Chain 2: 3r1c4,9r4c4,2r9c4,9r9c2
Twice Candidate 9, Col 2
012| | | | WeddingRing_T | 1r2c1
* IF 1r2c1 then
Chain 1: 7r2c5,4r8c5,6r8c9,3r3c9,2r3c7,6r4c7,5r6c7,1r6c3,5r7c3,3r8c3
Chain 2: 7r2c5,4r8c5,6r8c9,3r3c9,2r3c7,6r4c7,5r6c7,1r6c3,5r7c3,3r8c1
Twice Candidate 3, Row 8
013| 1| 26 | 1 | SingleInROW |
014| 7| 21 | | WeddingRing_T | 9r2c1
* IF 9r2c1 then
Chain 1: 7r2c5,4r8c5,6r8c9,3r3c9,8r1c8,3r1c4,9r4c4,2r9c4,9r9c6,6r7c6,5r7c5,1r7c4,7r7c3,1r3c3
Chain 2: 7r2c5,4r8c5,6r8c9,3r3c9,8r1c8,3r1c4,9r4c4,2r9c4,9r9c6,6r7c6,5r7c5,1r7c4,7r7c3,1r6c3
Twice Candidate 1, Col 3
015| 9| 32 | 9 | SingleInBOX |
016| 9| 71 | 9 | SingleInBOX |
017| 1| 33 | 1 | NakedSingle |
018| | | | PointingPairCOL | 2r4c2 2r5c2 2r6c2
* 2 in Box 7 being only in Column 2
removed from other Boxes in THIS Column (if there)
019| 4| 25 | 4 | WeddingRing_F |
* IF NOT 4r2c5 then
Chain 1: 4r8c5,6r8c9,3r3c9,8r1c8,3r1c4,9r4c4,2r9c4,4r9c2,2r7c2,1r7c4,5r3c4,6r3c8,2r3c7,6r4c7
Chain 2: 4r8c5,6r8c9,3r3c9,8r1c8,3r1c4,9r4c4,2r9c4,4r9c2,2r7c2,1r7c4,5r3c4,6r3c8,2r3c7,6r6c7
Twice Candidate 6, Col 7
020| 4| 18 | 4 | SingleInBOX |
021| 4| 47 | 4 | SingleInBOX |
022| 4| 96 | 4 | SingleInBOX |
023| 9| 94 | 9 | SingleInBOX |
024| 4| 52 | 4 | SingleInBOX |
025| 9| 66 | 9 | SingleInBOX |
026| 4| 83 | 4 | SingleInBOX |
027| 3| 44 | 3 | NakedSingle |
028| 3| 16 | 3 | NakedSingle |
029| 8| 14 | 8 | NakedSingle |
030| 2| 92 | 2 | NakedSingle |
031| 2| 36 | 2 | NakedSingle |
032| 7| 43 | 7 | NakedSingle |
033| 7| 72 | 7 | SingleInBOX |
034| 1| 74 | 1 | SingleInROW |
035| 2| 75 | 2 | SingleInROW |
036| 5| 73 | 5 | SingleInROW |
037| 2| 54 | 2 | SingleInBOX |
038| 7| 65 | 7 | SingleInBOX |
039| 7| 58 | 7 | SingleInBOX |
040| 3| 81 | 3 | SingleInBOX |
041| 3| 78 | 3 | SingleInBOX |
042| 7| 34 | 7 | SingleInBOX |
043| 3| 39 | 3 | SingleInBOX |
044| 3| 63 | 3 | NakedSingle |
045| 1| 82 | 1 | NakedSingle |
046| 5| 35 | 5 | NakedSingle |
047| 5| 84 | 5 | NakedSingle |
048| | | | NakedPairROW | 6r4c1 6r4c8 8r4c8 6r4c9 8r4c9
* ROW=4, NakedPair 68
found in r4c2, r4c5
Candidates of NP removed from other Cells in THIS ROW
049| | | | PointingPairROW | 6r6c1 6r6c2
* 6 in Box 6 being only in Row 6
removed from other Boxes in THIS Row (if there)
050| | | | NakedPairCOL | 5r6c1
* COL=6, NakedPair 56
found in r1c1, r5c1
Candidates of NP removed from other Cells in THIS COL
051| | | | NakedPairCOL | 6r6c7 8r6c7
* COL=6, NakedPair 68
found in r3c7, r7c7
Candidates of NP removed from other Cells in THIS COL
052| | | | NakedTripleCOL | 1r6c8 5r6c8
* COL=8, NakedTriple=159
(Sub)Sets in r2c8, r4c8, r9c8
Candidates of NT removed from other Cells in THIS COL
053| | | | RemotePair | 8r5c9
* Pair: 68
Chain: RC56 RC76 RC77 RC89
Active Corners: RC56 RC89
Removing from: RC86 RC59 (if there)
054| 8| 56 | 8 | SingleInROW |
055| 8| 77 | 8 | SingleInROW |
056| 8| 85 | 8 | SingleInROW |
057| 8| 38 | 8 | SingleInBOX |
058| 6| 45 | 6 | NakedSingle |
059| 8| 69 | 8 | SingleInBOX |
060| 6| 76 | 6 | NakedSingle |
061| 6| 89 | 6 | NakedSingle |
062| 6| 37 | 6 | NakedSingle |
063| 6| 51 | 6 | SingleInBOX |
064| 8| 42 | 8 | NakedSingle |
065| 6| 68 | 6 | NakedSingle |
066| 6| 12 | 6 | SingleInBOX |
067| 5| 62 | 5 | NakedSingle |
068| 5| 59 | 5 | NakedSingle |
069| 5| 98 | 5 | SingleInBOX |
070| 5| 11 | 5 | NakedSingle |
071| 5| 27 | 5 | SingleInBOX |
072| 1| 99 | 1 | NakedSingle |
073| 2| 29 | 2 | SingleInBOX |
074| 9| 28 | 9 | NakedSingle |
075| 1| 48 | 1 | NakedSingle |
076| 2| 67 | 2 | NakedSingle |
077| 9| 49 | 9 | NakedSingle |
078| 1| 61 | 1 | NakedSingle |
079| 2| 41 | 2 | NakedSingle |
|
Try This:
.4.3..9...7...5.2.8........6.....352..5....9...4...6.....9....8....42.7..9.16....
Regards IvoC |
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