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| sswift
| | Joined: 16 Feb 2006 | | Posts: 21 | | : | |
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 Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:44 pm Post subject: How hard are these to solve? |
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I was wondering if anyone here could tell me how hard these puzzles would be for people to solve.
I just got my generation function working, and it generates a puzzle in anywhere from 50 millsieconds to 500. It works by solving a blank grid, and then attempting to clear each cel in the grid (in a shuffled order) and seeing if the resulting puzzle has ore than one solution. If it does, then it restores the cel.
Here are some of the puzzles it generated. My solver does not try to use humanlike methods to solve the puzzle, so there's no way for me to check how many of those methods have to be used, how hard they are, or whether the player must make any guesses.
My solver says these are all valid, so if any come up as invalid I may have a problem.
7...........2.3....4....6....8......8.9....5.61....971....4.8.5...7.....9...56..
5.7..63....8..9.2...2.7184..235.....8..........5.6..3.....12.........9816...8....
2.16..7....8..954..........6.3...8......5....9...3..2.....139...1...7..6.92..4.3.
..3.8.9..7....2..4.28..7..6.3.5.....8...1....9..7......5..7.........5417..19..3..
.6....139.38...2.7..2.6..8..1...8.9.........3...92.5.8..7..2.........9.....715..2 |
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| Ruud
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 | | Joined: 17 Sep 2005 | | Posts: 708 | | : | | Location: Netherlands |
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
The SudoCue verdict:
#1 is unsolvable, has only 80 digits+dots
#2 is solved with hidden singles only. It has 2 bottlenecks with only 1 option, but not in the early stage
#3 requires forcing chains, nice XY loops or bifurcation. Not for the average human.
#4 requires naked triples and a single forcing chain or alternative. High end, but not interesting.
#5 is solved with hidden singles only. Only 1 bottleneck.
Ruud.
_________________
Meet me at sudocue.net |
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| sswift
| | Joined: 16 Feb 2006 | | Posts: 21 | | : | |
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sure I just copied and pasted the first one incorrectly. My output isn't in nice neat lines like that.
Well that's good. Looks like the output is reasonable then, which is all I wanted.  |
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| sswift
| | Joined: 16 Feb 2006 | | Posts: 21 | | : | |
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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I found that SudoCue program you mentioned using. You wrote that right?
I don't know how all those terms relate the the data in the analyser, but I tried a few puzzles in it, and this one came up with one "brute force":
1...7.3..7.......6.394.............1....1..4...6.98..7.9.5..42..2.......65.7.2.1.
Does that mean a person would have to guess to solve it, or just that your program had to guess?
Also, what is "coloring"? Cause it had one of those too. |
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| Ruud
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| | Joined: 17 Sep 2005 | | Posts: 708 | | : | | Location: Netherlands |
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| sswift wrote: | | I found that SudoCue program you mentioned using. You wrote that right? |
yep.
| Quote: | I don't know how all those terms relate the the data in the analyser, but I tried a few puzzles in it, and this one came up with one "brute force":
1...7.3..7.......6.394.............1....1..4...6.98..7.9.5..42..2.......65.7.2.1. |
It could be that you do not have all solving techniques enabled, but here it requires 2 "tabling" steps. You can see in the analyzer which solving techniques are currently disabled.
Many of the techniques have been discussed here on the forum. The most important threads can be found in the solving technique index. A variety of threads explain coloring.
Ruud. |
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| tarek
| | Joined: 31 Dec 2005 | | Posts: 153 | | : | | Location: London, UK |
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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#3 was an interesting puzzle:
These were the most difficult steps according to my solver:
| Code: | *-----------------------------------------------------------------*
| 2 345 1 | 6 48 58 | 7 9 38 |
| 7 6 8 | 13 2 9 | 5 4 13 |
| 45 345 9 |-13478 478 158 | 236 16 1238 |
|---------------------+---------------------+---------------------|
| 6 25 3 | 479 479 12 | 8 17 1459 |
| 1 24 ^47 |^789 5 268 |^36 ^67 ^39 |
| 9 8 57 | 147 3 16 | 46 2 145 |
|---------------------+---------------------+---------------------|
| 458 7 6 |%258 1 3 | 9 58 24 |
| 3 1 *45 |%259 *89 7 | 24 *58 6 |
| 58 9 2 |%58 6 4 | 1 3 7 |
*-----------------------------------------------------------------*
Eliminating 8 from r3c4(ALS-XY A=4589 in * B=346789 in ^ C=2589 in % x=4 y=9 z=8)
*--------------------------------------------------------*
| 2 345 1 | 6 48 58 | 7 9 38 |
| 7 6 8 | 13 2 9 | 5 4 13 |
| 45 345 9 | 1347 478 158 | 236 16 1238 |
|------------------+------------------+------------------|
| 6 25 3 | 479 479 12 | 8 17 1459 |
| 1 24 47 | 789 5 268 | 36 67 39 |
| 9 8 57 | 147 3 16 | 46 2 145 |
|------------------+------------------+------------------|
| 458 7 6 | 258 1 3 | 9 58 24 |
| 3 1 45 | 259 89 7 | 24 58 6 |
| 58 9 2 | 58 6 4 | 1 3 7 |
*--------------------------------------------------------*
Candidates in r8c4 will force r5c9 to have only 9 as valid Candidates
r8c4=2: r8c4=2 => r8c7=4 => r6c7=6 => r5c7=3 => r5c9=9
r8c4=5: r8c4=5 => r8c3=4 => r5c3=7 => r5c8=6 => r5c7=3 => r5c9=9
r8c4=9: r8c4=9 => r8c5=8 => r8c8=5 => r8c3=4 => r5c3=7 => r5c8=6 => r5c7=3 => r5c9=9
Threfore r5c9=9 |
Tarek |
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