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| Pat
 | | Joined: 06 Sep 2006 | | Posts: 128 | | : | |
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 Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| dpbobelisk wrote: |
Hi all, it's David P Bird here
for those that don't make the connection with my login name here or at Sudopedia.
I don't think I can register twice here with different names, so would welcome a Personal Message on this site with login instructions for any new site that can be set up. |
yes, you may need to use a separate e-mail address to obtain a 2nd registration |
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| evert
| | Joined: 30 Aug 2005 | | Posts: 68 | | : | | Location: Amsterdam |
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| champagne wrote: | The key issue seems to build (or find) a structure to collect "legally" the money and control the forum.
champagne
ps: may be this is not of a big interest, but at least, I reached the necessary 5 posts to put links if necessary  |
Probably voluntary donations would work.
Maybe slight advantages for the users that actually have donated, like the ability to put links  |
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| scottgould
| | Joined: 22 Apr 2010 | | Posts: 1 | | : | |
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:47 am Post subject: |
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Hi folks,
Scott Gould here. Some of you may remember me from sudoku-dot-com's pre-Real Networks days. Pat suggested I stop by.
I'm afraid I have no actual information to impart just yet, but I will do what I can to help recover/preserve the former Sudoku Players' forums. Without going into too much detail, we must trust in Real's good graces -- there is rarely anything that any site provider is *obligated* to do for its users, and if they want to simply retire the forums they are well within their rights to do so. I will inquire with them as to whether, in order of preference:
1. The Players' forums can be restored as-is
1. The content can be restored in what appear to be the new official forums
2. The database can be provided and permission granted to re-establish the forums at a new location
I've been on the user-end of this in another community and sadly such appeals fell on deaf ears. In this case, though, I'm sure Real will appreciate the wealth of knowledge and historical interest that the old Players' forums contained.
Regards
Scott |
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| ronk
| | Joined: 15 Apr 2010 | | Posts: 9 | | : | | Location: Southeastern USA |
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:35 am Post subject: update from nhernandez |
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| here nhernandez wrote: | Here's an update on the old server.
We have brought the machine here to this building and our IT people are currently trying to see if any data is retrievable. When they powered on the machine the drive was making a clicking sound which is a bad sign in the data recovery department but they are looking into it now regardless.
As for back ups the forum database hasn't been backed up since 2007. We do have those files though so worst case you will get everything up to that date. |
2007? Is that when Real Networks purchased the sudoku.com domain? |
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| wapati
| | Joined: 12 Jun 2007 | | Posts: 622 | | : | | Location: Canada |
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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There is a web archive at http://www.archive.org/web/web.php
It is not very up to date but much of the stuff we want is old. I was looking at it but my connection timed out a lot.
Are there other archives available? |
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| JasonLion
| | Joined: 16 Nov 2008 | | Posts: 61 | | : | | Location: Silver Spring, MD |
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| I have been through their archive looking for pages from the forum. They don't have anything newer than 2008, and even from back then they mostly only have the main forum index. Every now and then they caught another page or two. If you go further back 2006 or 2007 they have more but it remains full of gaps and isn't anywhere near complete. Overall it didn't seem all that useful. |
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| ttt
| | Joined: 15 Apr 2010 | | Posts: 1 | | : | | Location: vietnam |
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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In fact, I intend and want (or like?) to retire... then I should not post here, but I think that SudokuLand come to dead: not much things we would be found more for sudoku. So, we should forget it...
I’m sorry if something’s wrong... I was drunk too too too... much.
ttt |
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| Pat
| | Joined: 06 Sep 2006 | | Posts: 128 | | : | |
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| ttt wrote: |
not much things we would be found more for sudoku |
thinking about the newer stuff in the forum,
for me it is the important comments of ano1
on the methods for finding 17-clue puzzles;
for others, probably the "NoFish" discussion--- |
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| Pat
| | Joined: 06 Sep 2006 | | Posts: 128 | | : | |
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:02 am Post subject: main index of the lost forum |
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the lost forum
had 6 divisions ( "Categories" )
containing 17 sections ( "Forums" )
these were the 6 divisions ( "Categories" ),
in order of appearance
( note the "Categories" are numbered differently ) --
A "Category" # ( c= )
B name
1;Sudoku: the computer program from Pappocom
2;Sudoku: the puzzle
3;Sudoku: in papers and publications
6;Other Logic puzzles
4;Third-party contributions
5;Off-Topic
and these were the 17 sections ( "Forums" )
in order of appearance
A "Forum" # ( f= )
B name
C "Category" # ( c= )
D position within "Category"
E description
22;Announcements;1;1;Messages of note to the Sudoku Players community
5;Wishlist;1;2;Things you would like to see added, removed or changed
2;Support;1;3;Fixes, workarounds and general technical issues
17;Help with particular puzzles;2;1;Post the puzzle that's causing you trouble and get help with solving it
3;Advanced solving techniques;2;2;Advanced methods and approaches for solving Sudoku puzzles
4;General/puzzle;2;3;Everything else
23;Interactive Games;2;4;Interactive game threads go here.
12;Pappocom papers;3;1;About papers which run Pappocom puzzles, and the way they run them
8;Sudoku Books from Pappocom;3;2;General comments or questions about the books and their puzzles
9;Non-Pappocom;3;3;Non-Pappocom puzzles, Japanese publications and the rest of the papers
18;Sudoku variants;3;4;For fans of Killer Sudoku, Samurai Sudoku and other variants
19;Kakuro;6;1;For fans of Kakuro
20;Other Logic puzzles;6;2;For fans of all other kinds of Logic puzzles
21;Inventors' Studio;6;3;Notes on possible new Logic puzzles
10;Library books and puzzles;4;1;Where to find downloadable Sudoku Library books and special-interest puzzles
11;Solver programs;4;2;A forum for the Solver-program industry
16;Off-Topic;5;1;Anything goes, but keep it seemly...
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| Pat
| | Joined: 06 Sep 2006 | | Posts: 128 | | : | |
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| ronk wrote: | 2007?
Is that when Real Networks purchased the sudoku dot com domain?
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yes | under heading Farewell, Son of Pappocom (2007.Jun.8 23:06 GMT) wrote: | Hi folks,
Well, it's been an eventful two and a half years. Despite the odd hiccup on our part, you have collectively established the most intelligent Sudoku forum to be found anywhere. Wayne fondly recalls watching a thread in the early days wherein the x-wing technique was excitedly discovered. The level of discussion since then has only become more sophisticated, and rare is the thread nowadays that doesn't make our heads spin.
But now we're handing over the reins. Sudoku-dot-com and these forums will endure, but not on our servers. We have every confidence that their new home will grant the kind of resources and opportunities that we could never have provided.
Sudoku the program, of course, will be unaffected (aside from having a shiny new website). For anything program-related, you will be able to find us at www.WayneGouldPuzzles.com.
Thanks so much to all of you.
Wayne & Scott Gould |
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| wapati
| | Joined: 12 Jun 2007 | | Posts: 622 | | : | | Location: Canada |
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| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:17 am Post subject: |
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Ruud still has a website.
Perhaps he would host?
Lep, I know, it is still there.
Money might make it work. |
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| ronk
| | Joined: 15 Apr 2010 | | Posts: 9 | | : | | Location: Southeastern USA |
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| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| wapati wrote: | Ruud still has a website.
Perhaps he would host? |
AFAIK Ruud is OK, but he is no longer active in the sudoku community. He was once a moderator on this forum, but his last post was Jan 2008. By his website, I assume you mean http://www.sudocue.net/forum/ ... which has had but one post since Jul 2009. Ruud has presumably been paying the hosting fee.
One further concern, Ruud may have (and still be) the only account owner for the sudopedia.org site. But, heaven forbid, what if he is hit by a truck? |
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| JasonLion
| | Joined: 16 Nov 2008 | | Posts: 61 | | : | | Location: Silver Spring, MD |
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| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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I have been working on setting up a replacement forum. gsf and I transferred the user name list last week and have been exploring ways to restore what old posts we can find. I was hoping to have the whole thing up by now, but restoring old posts has proven to be more work than expected.
Restoring old posts involves some disruption to the server, including periods where the forum needs to be turned off, so I have been hoping to do that before going public. If there is enough interest, we could open up the new forum without any of the old posts. I haven't been thinking in those terms, but it is possible to have the new forum up quite quickly without any of the history.
Another reason I have been waiting is because it still isn't clear to me what Real Networks will be able and want to do. I don't want to step on their toes if they can actually come up with a solution.
My new forum is hosted on one of my web servers. To address any concerns about future problems, I propose to give access to full site backups to the moderators of the forum. These backups could be used to restore the forum somewhere else quite quickly if anything should happen to me or to the web server.
When and if this gets going, if others can help pay a portion of the expenses of setting up and running the new forum, that would be really nice. When the new forum is up and running, there will be a way to donate money to help share in paying the costs. If donations aren't sufficient, we can explore the possibility of having paid accounts, but right now that seems like it will just be more trouble all around. |
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| DonM
| | Joined: 15 Apr 2010 | | Posts: 3 | | : | |
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| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| JasonLion wrote: | | When and if this gets going, if others can help pay a portion of the expenses of setting up and running the new forum, that would be really nice. When the new forum is up and running, there will be a way to donate money to help share in paying the costs. If donations aren't sufficient, we can explore the possibility of having paid accounts, but right now that seems like it will just be more trouble all around. |
I've been giving this some thought. The problem with general voluntary donations is that it is more likely that very few will donate. So, one possibility is to have something like a 'Founder's Section' of the forum. There would be a certain amount donated annually per member of the Founder's Section (or whatever name one wants to come up with) to keep the forum going.
There would be a section of the forum only available to 'Founders' who would be able to comment on things related to the direction & management of the forum and whatnot. The moderator's of the forum would come from members of that section and could be rotated annually. There might be some perks (can't think of any at the moment though) for members of that section.
Each year these members would be asked to give the amount necessary to keep the forum going. If anyone chose to no longer do so, that would be fine: the password to the Founder's section could be changed annually so that those who no longer donated would simply not have access to that section anymore.
Jason- do you have a general idea as to the general annual cost of keeping a forum like this going? |
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| hobiwan
| | Joined: 11 Feb 2008 | | Posts: 83 | | : | |
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| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| DonM wrote: | | I've been giving this some thought. The problem with general voluntary donations is that it is more likely that very few will donate. So, one possibility is to have something like a 'Founder's Section' of the forum. There would be a certain amount donated annually per member of the Founder's Section (or whatever name one wants to come up with) to keep the forum going. |
I think that would just overcomplicate things. There are maybe 20 active posters on the forum. If everyone agrees to donate 10 USD pa, that should be more than enough.
JasonLion, many thanks to you and gsf for your efforts. If you have any programming tasks needed done I would be happy to help. |
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